Overview
This is an in-depth interview with Philip Sue, one of the few engineers promoted to distinguished engineer (IC9) at Meta, who shares insights from his career spanning Microsoft, Meta, and OpenAI. He discusses his rapid career progression, transitions between IC and management roles, and key lessons learned from working with legendary figures like Mark Zuckerberg and John Carmack.
Main Topics Covered
- Rapid career growth strategies at Microsoft and Meta
- IC vs. management career transitions and trade-offs
- Working at different company stages (startup vs. large company)
- Engineering leadership and building strong team cultures
- Working with high-profile tech leaders
- Career philosophy and decision-making frameworks
- The importance of writing skills for engineers
- Generalist vs. specialist career paths
Key Takeaways & Insights
Three Factors for Career Growth:
- Luck (being at the right place at the right time)
- Natural talent (acknowledging inherent limitations)
- Hard work (willingness to outwork equally talented peers)
Leadership Readiness Test:
- You're ready to lead when your team would elect you to lead them
- Ask yourself: "Would I want to work for me?"
Career Level Expectations:
- E5-E6: Can influence work of 10-15 people
- E7: Can influence work of ~50 people, deliver 6-month projects independently
- E8-E9: Influence 100+ people, handle strategic decisions with long-term impact
Company Stage Preferences:
- Small companies value generalists more than specialists
- Large companies can afford specialists due to scale
- Market leaders have room to experiment; followers must fast-follow
Actionable Strategies
For Career Growth:
- Work longer hours strategically when young to gain more experience faster
- Keep IC/management transition doors open by maintaining coding skills
- Be willing to take demotions to stay in preferred roles
- Focus on scope of influence rather than just technical depth
For Leadership:
- Build credibility through strong individual contribution first
- Learn to give direct feedback (a key weakness to address)
- Support new leaders when transitioning roles
- Communicate vision and passion to motivate teams
For Skill Development:
- Read extensively to improve writing (Virginia Woolf: "to write well, read well")
- Rewrite multiple times before publishing
- Don't dismiss "soft skills" - they're as valuable as technical skills
Specific Details & Examples
Career Milestones:
- Promoted to Microsoft E7 equivalent while working extreme hours (sleeping bag in office)
- Voluntarily demoted from E9 to E7 at Meta when switching from management to IC
- Built Meta London office from 12 to 500 people over 4-5 years
- Spent $23,000 buying coffee for entire Meta company as farewell gesture
Notable Colleagues:
- John Carmack: Could drop into any codebase after 6 months and provide concrete technical insights
- Scott Renfro: Exceptional at providing sensitive code review feedback and being a force multiplier
- Mark Zuckerberg: Demonstrated continuous personal growth and willingness to be coached
Warnings & Common Mistakes
Career Pitfalls:
- Becoming a "dog that caught the car" - achieving goals without knowing what comes next
- Over-specializing too early (risk of becoming obsolete)
- Working unsustainable hours can damage relationships permanently
- Not being clear on personal values makes decisions harder
- Binding too early to management track without keeping IC skills fresh
Management Traps:
- Don't manage people more experienced than you without proper preparation
- Avoid the "idiot savant" risk of over-specialization
- Be careful not to walk through one-way career doors unintentionally
Resources & Next Steps
Recommended Learning:
- Read classic literature to improve writing skills
- Study examples of great technical leaders
- Seek mentors and feedback actively
- Consider podcast "Peak Salvation" for perspectives on automation and society
Career Decision Framework:
- Clarify personal values before making major decisions
- Ask "Would I want to be in this position when I achieve it?"
- Consider whether you want to be a generalist or specialist based on company stage
- Evaluate market position when choosing companies (leader vs. follower dynamics)