YouTube Deep Summary

All right before I get started uh  I'd like to turn it over to Tony. Yeah thank you all for joining us for this community meeting. We're here to assist and host CHIP's informational meeting. uh regarding the uh project  over at Cypress. The staff is here to assist in questions uh but  we hear that the hearing value for us this project will be going with the incredible Planning Commission and hopefully uh Seana with the Community Housing Improvement Program can  uh answer all your questions with the facts Do you have your mic turned on? I do. Oh OK. So I'm going to turn this over uh the  Seana O'Shaughnessy with CHIP housing. Thank you so much. My name is Seana O'Shaughnessy, I am the President and CEO of CHIP  housing, Community Housing Improvement Program. Um a little bit of background, I grew up in Paradise my family moved here in 1978. um I left for college in a few years after that. Moved back in 2015 my husband's from Chico and his mom was also in the area, my parents were still in Paradise at the time of the Camp Fire um so we felt very very happy that we were here so that they had a place to go at the time of the fire. CHIP owns Paradise Community Village and we had many many staff that lived and worked in Paradise and Magalia, and we still do. Um I would like to introduce Jeff Riley, he is the project manager with Mercy Housing and we'll talk a little bit about the partnership structure as part of my presentation. Wendy Phillips, our Director of Property Management and then Mark Montgomery our Communications Director. Um so CHIP, so CHIP Community Housing Improvement Program. We have been in the area for 50 years. We were founded in 1973 in Chico, as a housing rehab organization. We worked with Chico State to rehab houses south of campus and then we kind of spread to other communities. In the late 80s we started a mutual self-help program, which is basically a homeownership program where we help people build their own homes and through our self-help program we have built over 2,000 single-family homes throughout our service area. Our service area expanded from Chico, Butte County, to include Shasta, Tehema, Glenn, Colusa, Yuba, and Sutter counties. Um after we started our self-help program we started our multi-family development arm. So in the early 80s we built our first apartment complexes in Chico and then the next one was in Glenn County, so we've been uh doing multi-family apartment complexes since the early 80s. We own 17 apartment complexes,  we property managed two more, we have about uh almost a thousand units that we manage across our portfolio um but most of them are in uh Chico. So I wanted to start with a little bit of  context and so for those of you who've watched the presentation who are here a couple weeks ago this is going to be redundant. Um but I did want to step back and talk about context. So why do we want to build affordable housing? What does this mean? So, as I think everyone recognizes, housing a place for people to live is absolutely essential to the town's recovery. And there was a lot of affordable housing here in the town of Paradise before a lot of it was in mobile home parks, family homes that had been passed down, but this housing isn't coming back so not most of the mobile home parks aren't being rebuilt and those that are being rebuilt are not quite as affordable as they were prior to the fire. The units cost more, the rent is more, and then for small landlords it's too expensive to build back the home to rent at a reasonable rate. As you know cost of construction is incredible. Um some people were lucky and were able to kind of get in there but most homes are costing about 400k to rebuild. Uh and demand is extremely high for affordable housing in the town of Paradise. So, Paradise Community Village, which I mentioned, so one thing I  forgot to mention about Paradise Community Village is it did burn in the fire and we rebuilt it so it was completed the first time in 2013 um was rented up was a successful property burned we finished it in 2021 and it's finally stopped fully since. um with Paradise Community Village we had the application uh window open for two weeks and in two weeks we had over 250 applications. More than  half of those were from Camp fire survivors and then the rest were people mostly from the area who wanted to relocate here um and so that it was astonishing I mean we don't have that rate of applications for any of our other properties. This is just a reminder of the community profile, so as I mentioned there was a significant number of low-income people here prior to the fire, a lot of retirees people living on a fixed income, a lot of people living in the mobile home parks. And uh one thing that was really important is that there was naturally occurring affordable housing there was a natural affordability that doesn't exist anymore because it was wiped out in a Camp Fire as you know, everyone knows, it was completely destructive and we lost 14 000 housing units so the entire region is feeling the loss of this housing because it was a place that was affordable for people and it no longer exists in that way. And the entire region it's filling the effects. So who lives in affordable housing so I wanted to kind of start with some definitions because I think sometimes people hear affordable housing and they automatically think homeless or people with no income whatsoever and that's not the case. Affordable housing buying industry definition are people earning up to 80 area median income my next slide actually has numbers so you know what 80 percent area median income means um and most affordable housing developments Target  people between 30% and 60% of area median, income so that's median income based on your own region. And so most of CHIP's tenants work in low-wage jobs or on a fixed income such as Social Security or disability. So this is the area media income for Butte County and you can see at 80% area median income which is considered low income it is actually a fairly typical wage for professionals and then 60% and then obviously 30% is very low most people can't are you know kind of just barely making it at that income level. So this is an important slide so every year the National Low-Income Housing Coalition does a study that looks at how much a person would have to earn in order to be able to afford a two-bedroom market rate apartment in their own ZIP code so they don't say what you would have to earn to rent a place in Sacramento if you live in Paradise what do you have to earn in Paradise in Chico to be able to afford a market rate two-bedroom and this year in Paradise that tiny little print up here today. I'm gonna walk over there even though I'm not supposed to leave the microphone. uh this is 95969 and then these are Chico, Orville, in Paradise $22.88 so almost $23 in order to afford a market rate two bedroom uh apartment and then  this is Butte County it's a little bit low um lower than Paradise actually at $22.63. So that is a very high wage for people to have to earn. So this is another chart and basically uh this is released every year um I used the one from 2019 because it was already shaded it came from the housing study, one of the housing studies, that was put together after the Camp Fire and for those of you it's a little bit small print but this shows in red the occupations and the people. the income that they're at and their inability to afford market rate housing. So you have Library aids, uh Community Social Service occupations, maintenance folks people, in arts, office support, uh Health worker health care workers, sales and Retail, all of those folks are folks that live in affordable housing. That's the population that we're serving. So there is an unprecedented opportunity, after a disaster there is Community  Development block grant funding um disaster relief and so a chunk of it is designated for specifically multi-family housing and the town of Paradise has 50 million dollars in CBDGRMHP funding to invest in the community um the state guideline requires that it's 40 percent of CBDGR must be matched. So that will be an investment of over 135 million dollars into the town of Paradise. So responding to the needs, again this print is a little bit small so I'll summarize, um there are three Partners in this project there is uh Zen Development Consultants and Zen is on Zoom ,if you have any questions specifically for him, Mercy Housing and CHIP housing and the way that the partnership worked is then put together the land so as you know uh we have to have a large enough uh parcel for septic um if you're not going to be on the sewer line and if you're planning on building before the sewer line is here you still have to be able to have septic capacity and a lot of the owners who had Parcels that were large enough weren't willing to sell because waiting for PG&E settlement you didn't want to screw that up so identifying land was very hard. And CHIP did want to do at least one other multi-family project here in Paradise to go along with Paradise Community Village but Zen very nice guy, um very very persistent, and he was able to find land um and then he reached out to Mercy because he had a prior relationship with Mercy Housing and Mercy Housing is one of the largest affordable housing developers in the state of California and across the Nation they have they are a non-profit they were founded by The Sisters of Mercy and they have 10,000 units here in California. And one of the questions that was asked to Mercy was can you ensure in paradise and they were able to get insurance but Mercy also said we don't want to go into Paradise without working with CHIP because we know that they are local, we know this is their hometown, we want to partner in and so Zen brought in Mercy, Mercy brought in us and we created this partnership. We will so co-develop the three of us, Zen will exit, co-ownership will be Mercy Housing, CHIP housing and our investors, so the the investor that brings in cash and equity will be part of it. And then CHIP will be responsible for the property management, we are local we have local staff and we're able to be here and be the face of the property. So that is the uh division of duties and Mercy Housing will be the lead, we're co-developing but Mercy will be the lead developer and Jeff is the project manager for that development work. So the site, Cyprus Apartments, I think everyone knows, is located on Cypress Lane off of Park, north of Flagstaff. Um there will be 70, we are proposing 70 senior and 70 family apartments and we were really careful and thoughtful about the design. We wanted to complement existing homes and we built in a lot of on-site amenities. So prior uses neighborhood and capacity: so we've we've heard some of the concerns that have been expressed we've read all the public comment letters um you know we've participated in any of the public forums um and so we wanted to direct address one of the primary concerns which was about the number of units that were being proposed for the site. Um so again, sorry live stream people I'm gonna wonder over to the the screen. Um so Cypress itself the skilled nursing had 136 beds and about 166 staff although the latest reports at about 125 that were in and out every day. Um California locations had uh licenses for beds of 10 to 20 so they vary throughout their  existence sometimes they attend sometimes they had 20s at the time of the fire they attend but they had 75 permanent staff there coming in and out every single day and then they had 250 staff total and that additional uh 125 staff would be in and out periodically. Immediately across the street was Apple Tree Village, 167 mobile home units, senior, also very affordable at the time, mobile home parks very affordable the rent there was very affordable. And then immediately north of Cyprus was Pine Springs, which was 63 mobile home units also affordable housing that existed prior to the fire. So the number of units that we're proposing the number of people that were proposing there is actually much less than what was in the neighborhood before in terms of dense housing that was there obviously not talking about any of the single-family housing that was there but the the uses that were more comparable to ours in terms of mobile home parks and density and things like that. All right site plan, so a lot of thought  and Care went into the site plan. Um we were hoping to have all of  the senior housing be one story. Um all right I'm sorry so the for YouTube and live stream and the recording they can't hear me unless I'm talking to the microphone but I do want to point things out so I'm gonna do it. All right so purple is senior housing these are a  one story on Clark and then it goes down uh into a little bit of a valley  the yellow is family housing and then the red is the community  center. We knew about this Creek um and so we have kind of originally designed all the one story senior around this Creek but some of these areas were a little bit bigger than we knew and then this Creek was a little bit bigger and this Wetland was not something we were originally anticipating before the environmental review went out there. So we had to condense the senior housing and we do have some two-story senior housing we are opening and planning to put in elevators in the senior two-story housing. With the family we created this courtyard heel and we broke up the building so there's no huge buildings anywhere on site and we put the playgrounds in the middle of the courtyards to mitigate any neighborhood noise and then the sidewalks that we were talking about we're putting the sidewalks on so there's nice path of travel for seniors and families to the community center so that's why the sidewalks were so important to us to include. And then this is all septic we are completely re-engineering the septic system of working with Northstar so these are leech fields and then there's two places where the waste is treated so that it's taken care of and there's no issues. Is this both phases that you're showing us? Phase one and phase two? Yeah phase one is family and then phase two is senior and then the community building will be built completely as part of phase one. and you can kind of see them there too. I noticed you don't have the other Creek on your map here, the dry wash. It's on the other side actually, it would be on the east side of the development Creek it's seasonal but it's not on the map. um  they did do an extensive environmental review um I wonder if it's not on your property is that it at the bottom? oh yeah it is right here I am not sure, because the property goes down a little bit further and you're right it is right there and that's um so none  of the septic will go into the creek. Um so you're using the same septic for the senior housing that's over towards Clark that you're going to use for the rest of the facility? No okay so there's no one on uh the youtube or live stream can hear, the question was what about the creek on the east side and it's a little bit on the bottom part of the map and then uh is this both phrases? yes yellow  is Phase One family with the community building and uh purple is phase two with the senior um and then the question was are we using the same septic systems for both no you were required to have them on separate Parcels for the leech fields are separated um and then are the where they are processed I think they're very I don't know about the processing but it's a very well engineered system. Are going to you have to buy an additional land because it doesn't look like a lot there? No there's it actually goes down - it goes down all the way to Adams yeah we just wanted to zoom in on this side so there's a whole - Crossing creeks and settings - yeah so there's um yes but they are um basically the engineer North Star and then we have state permits that we'll be working with and that's part of why that's phase two um because it takes the time to get  the permits from the state and the plan. In the septum tanks and and lift stations are separate between the two. So is this going to be an engineered system? yes. okay we have problems with those in our town if you go to Cozy Diner and use it the wrong time of the day it stinks. I mean there's problems with those. It depends on who engineered it and when and how.  I mean I agree, what are the guarantees that it's going to be profitable? So it's North Star and you know they state their reputation, we also do have a we have an engineering system at PCV and we have never had a smell ever. Um you guys said that you were going to use the previous setting system before right? We were going to use the existing leech Fields. I'm 34 I've lived there my whole life in that beach field has a problems. oh yeah yeah. Are you on Paradise Wood? No I'm at the end of Bellevue, I'm real close. Oh OK, you guys are neighbors. The reason I mentioned that is because and you know we've had engineers that have had problems in other areas of  town in spite of their reputation. Once this is built and operational  if there is a problem you know that's a problem for people that live in the neighborhood. Well it's a problem for our residents too. I mean no one wants to live where it smells like poop, so we we don't, it will be better than what was there before and if, I mean, we have zero problems that PCV I mean it is it works phenomenally. Seana, I wanted to say something for those present um all engineered septic systems do require a contract with a maintenance provider that standard systems do not, so this will have at least um quarterly to biannual inspections by a license statements provider and testing um as well as some of the odors associated with engineered systems you have to keep in mind that the constituents in restaurant waste or Industrial Waste or Hospital waste is completely different and much stronger than residential waste. And just to add there are two there's a primary and a secondary treatment underground before it's sent out into the League's lens so that's part of that is the primary way to mitigate all of that we're not skimping on the septic system I mean it is something that is very important to get right and we know it um because well we have one and and we know it's simple they have the one in Chico too. So we have one right in the middle of Chico um it's very easy also you know I'm not sure yeah I think they do at both of those properties. So we have neighboring properties which is a hundred units total um that has is on a septic um and we haven't had any smells or issues with those either. So but they do have to be maintained  they have to be built right and um maintenance is really important to us. All right so here are the pretty pictures. Um so senior apartments this  is the one story facing Clark um Road um and so each it says each apartment has  parking laundry each building has laundry um and then there's plenty of parking last time we were here we had the wrong parking numbers, we actually have um more than uh we have one and a half per - you're required to have 196 you have 236. So we have more parking, so 236 parking spaces. So you get 1.5 per your apartment? No, you get two. So you're proposing 140 units? And we have 236 parking space. So if two people in the family units both work both Drive - yeah there's plenty of parking - they just can't have any kids that have drivers license? Well there will be some, as you pointed out, some seniors who don't drive but we are providing parking for every single senior unit assuming that they will drive but we have uh more units more parking spaces and it was a concerned because we definitely didn't want to spillover into any of the neighborhoods with parking. Yes sir? Can you co back to the pervious slide? Yes. Where are you planning on taking that drain water from the parking lots? storm grills where's that drain water going? So the town is requiring us to add a lot of drainage um but I don't remember where you're making us send it. The final construction plans would be a condition of the use permission permit, we don't get  them this far in advance. So you don't know where they go? Yes our engineering division has been in contact with the private engineering firm that's working on this but they do not need to submit construction writing plans to us yet . But there is we've already had conversations about needing to add additional drainage pipes and widening some um to deal with all of that.  We have preliminary grading plans now but the final grading plan will actually determine where those swales are going to be and where the drainage actually goes and that would be based on the decisions that we get from the from the town. I live in that bottom right there, that creek floods that area the way that it is now, you can't drain excess water. sure if yeah  if that heat gets too high it's actually um flooding our yeah and um my property is to the South and borders on and um and it does flood our yard and it'll actually kind of come back and press away. That is good information to know. Um okay, I mean it was definitely something and Susan will share with Mark and but we'll definitely pay attention to that, that's part of why we have these Community meetings too because there's on the ground information that you have that even you know books you know - I'm sure that these engineers and smart people they can figure out how much asphalt you're going to have there you know where the water is going to go one of the problems that we had in the Camp Fire and one of the problems we have on the Cypress curve is we have open ditches there and we have them in a lot of the main arterials getting out of town the emergency you can't drive in an open ditch you know and so if that's the only place where the water is going to go to get directed we had a project years ago at Pearson and Clark when they wanted to expand the storage units we put a moratorium on and there was a problem drainage issue there on that corner that we'd had for years and that became a condition of the development in order to correct that problem and so I mean it just I'd be real curious at some point for the town approves everything to see what those drain plans are. I mean they will but we're not planning on any ditches on Cypress even though that's what exists and then that this is I mean where Public Works was saying that we needed to add more significant uh drainage pipes so we're working on all of that so um so yeah the the drainage we're We're talking about the other stuff coming down here yeah you're not going to get it to run uphill - no no but it's coming off of Clark onto the property and what do we do with it which you know an engineering will address all your drain concerns when keeping the primary advantages tunnel that just went through the mapping the study of the entire town for they called the SPC but you know for the drainage ways uh through town so it's much better than that than uh more well known. So engineering is well versed drainage.  Because across the street there's a there's a there's a spring that nobody ever accounts for that corner lot right across the street it's got standing water on it now you know I mean and every winter like you were talking about you get every winter the water table is really high there.  So which one which a lot? It's across the street sir yeah but I mean that's you've got the same problem with the front for the senior housing but there's a lot of yeah - definitely I mean we definitely don't want I mean we don't want to send drainage water I mean we can't incident Creeks anyway I mean like so it it is definitely important and it will condition a final approval does mean that there has to be good water drainage somewhere it's a lot of - yeah I mean there's a lot of land without putting it into the creek. All right so pretty pictures. phase two senior lease-up, 2025. um and then that's what it would look like on Clark Road essentially. Family Apartments are two-story um and these are two different types of buildings so there's uh A, B, C, and D so there's uh different types of building and again each apartment has parking, shared laundry, lots of open space the playground and then family project is Phase One um and also anticipated completion and lease-up maybe late 2024 um but probably early 2025. Yes? what kind of guarantee is there the senior apartments will stay senior?  Oh they have to, so the funding so um one of the things about affordable housing and the funding sources because it is public money that is going into them you are required to re-certify every year you have inspections, you have file reviews from every single funding source that you have, so um so if you say you're going to do a senior project it stays a senior project. And tax credit which is, I hopefully, I mean so ideally ideally this project is going to be funded 40% CBDGDR which means the town will monitor us regularly to make sure that we're in compliance and then hopefully ideally the other 60% is low-income housing tax credits which is this whole system and so TTAC also has to monitor as well um to make sure that we are in compliance with the regulations and the guidlens so it's that it will be senior forever. Tax credits regulatory agreement is 55 years so nothing will change during that period of time. Um all right so Target population this is a little bit redundant with my slide about the median income but I did want to kind of mention that you know we had a preference for Camp fire survivors at Paradise Community Village, we heard that was a desire from community members to give a preference to Camp fire survivors and so we will be able to do that at Cyprus as well and um that preference will basically exist as long as there are Camp fire survivors still looking for housing. What a preference means is that they jump to the top of the wait list, it doesn't mean that they are guaranteed housing because they still have to be able to afford it, they have to meet our you know different requirements um but they will have a preference so they basically jump to the front of the list and with fair housing guidelines the list is what you have to do you just go from the top of the list to the bottom of the list um so it gives people that leg up, Um and so in our properties many attendants work in service sector jobs you will have more employees for uh the town um Patty you asked about the school system last time and we had a conversation with some school board members and they're very supportive of the project and kind of adding to the school population um so uh so that's um we're excited about that. You're talking about these families will be service people where are they going to work? There's nothing up here to work. Well there were, there are jobs that are closing because there aren't people but they may commute down not all of them will work but many of them do and there's lots of different types of jobs. So you're bringing section eight people that aren't even going to be working? Oh no Section 8 doesn't mean that people don't work it just means that they have a little bit of extra rent subsidy, some don't but many do and only 25 of the 70 units are section 8. repeat that again 25 out of 740? or 70? 70. 70 of the family units. Seniors could be section eight too? They can be and more seniors are on a fixed income so some of our seniors do also work um but more are on Social Security and are retired um so that is... but yes ma'am? And are your seniors going to be the 62 and plus or the 55 plus? 62. it's required by the funders - so uh the question was is it 62 Plus or 55 plus? um it is 62 plus the funding source uh does require 62 so that is the definition of a senior for this project. and all of Butte County. So is the family housing 25 out of 70 or is the senior?  25 out of 70 on family and 25 out of 70 on senior will have section 8 vouchers but it is a misunderstanding that people on Section 8 vouchers don't work it's just their lower income so if they are a larger family with a single parent working a minimum wage job they would qualify for Section 8. So that it's it is a funding source it's just what it does is it pays the difference between what they can afford in rent and market rate so they that's all it does. So it's almost 36 percent?  But if you keep in mind that's also seniors. So it and when you look at this, so a couple on social security, so if you have a couple that's retired and only has Social Security they are going to be over income at 30 percent AMI. And uh so that is something that's important, so if you have a single person on Social Security they may be right around there um so that is important so the little extra help with the Section 8 voucher allows them to pay for their medication, their food, all those things. So the whole project not all 144 are low income? They are all low-income they are not all section eight why did you determine 25? because uh that was what the Housing Authority allocated  Does that mean you have to do that? um no okay we applied for it because it is very  good I mean because you have someone who's low income it pays up to market rate it just pays the difference between what they can afford and market rate rent.  But if your housing is not market rate housing? It is not, but it will hit market rate rents in the units that have section 8 vouchers. So if I'm a Section 8 renter - yeah - you're going to get market rate for me? Yeah - So my portion plus the government's match? Well yeah. But the guy that's just major income requirement is going to pay the affordable housing rate yes that doesn't make ,that just sounds like a profit. No, I mean I'll explain the operating, let's keep going. All right fire safety and egress, fire safety and Ingress most important and one of the things that we were thinking about even before we saw the comments and so when we saw the comments about it it was easy because we knew we had been thinking about it. My parents evacuated, my friends evacuated, we never ever ever want anyone to go through that um at any of our properties. Paradise Community Village evacuated and um and they were at the south end and it was awful. Um so building construction will meet WOE plus requirements, we are, I corrected this do I not have? I so if IHBS not IIHBS I must have pulled the wrong one uh so uh we are and we're using IHBS which is the insurance industry building standards uh as a guideline we're not going to be certified by HBS but we will use them as a guideline when we're choosing construction materials, landscaping plans, all of those things so fencing, landscaping, all of those things um so we'll have two evacuation points uh so the gate on Cyber  slash puddle dots will remain but they'll be key to evacuate that way and then obviously out um Cyprus and then we'll work with the Butte uh safe view Fire Safe Council, I did correct this one, this is this is the old one it's only a couple typos um but uh they've come to Paradise Community Village to work with the tenants to create their own evacuation plans to work with our staff to make sure that we have evacuation plans in place so that people are ready to go and know what's happening and then we also work with them on advising us around uh you know kind of defensible space and all that stuff. Yes? I feel like over the last few decades we've had these evacuations that are so congested I'm not sure why you guys wouldn't split up units around town? You know a little bit here a little bit there so there's not so much congestion. There are uh inefficiencies to having a bunch of small sites scattered around um but with the two evacuations, fewer people still, I mean, so I don't, I mean, they're you know, until the population comes back the evacuations won't be as congested and they did fix many of the things that were wrong connecting um across the across Butte Meadows so people can more easily go north instead of everyone having to go south if you don't have uh four wheel drives um but it's still important to have an evacuation - yeah it is true it is true but they can still potentially go down Clark and then cut over to Skyway. - I thought you were going to have an entrance on - we are not yeah there was a conversation about having uh Gravel Road gated also that could be used for emergency but we're not looking at that now. - Why not? - um we think  with the traffic studies that the two points are adequate but we'll consider it we'll still have conversations. - But if there's a traffic study did to take down the gate? - So it has been revised so the draft study and so there's no plans to take down the gate on Cyprus we just will have a key so that it can be open for evacuations and then if there's other types of emergencies the fire department already has a key and they can come in we don't need to open it. - But if a study said that you needed two points? - We do have two points for emergency evacuations it's just you don't have to remove the gate to have an emergency that anyway uh it's been updated so the draft update will go out - It will be part of the staff report  for the Planning Commission so um where's the key located and how many people will be trained to do that? - So the right now the key is with Marcy who lives there and the fire department. We will have a key in each of the property management offices for the senior and the family and the resident managers maintenance uh will be trained but they will only have permission to use it for evacuation. Emergency use only. - And if they're not there when the emergency happens if they're at the store at the doctor's office who's got the key? - Well we have we have two on-site staff members so the likelihood of both of them being gone at the same time is low, and then we'll have uh also I mean depending on time of day there are an assistant property, resident property manager, maintenance staff, and resident services. - I'll just follow up that every uh fire engine will have a key as well as prevention staff. - I understand here's my point, during the fire, and you've got half a million people living in Magalia probably half of which use Clark Road not Skyway or Pence but you got that many people  running for their lives for me to get from across the street the corner the forest service road to Pence Road took two hours so when you're trying to evacuate 140 people or 300 people out of this cul-de-sac you're Building on the Clark Road with all the traffic that's already on it in an evacuation as well as you know the fire I mean it's great if the fire engine can get their to the gate - yeah we're not we're not expecting the fire engine I mean - it's just that's one of the concerns a lot of us have - Yeah I know that's why we're experiences access to a key ourselves because it's you know the neighbor's not there fire trucks are busy elsewhere in town um but with two people living there the likelihood of someone not being there it's very low and with additional staff um I think we're in good shape with that. - Is the town of Paradise is going to commit to that that property of being condemned I know you're saying you're nothing? - So it's in the draft the draft and the updated uh that will  go in the staff report and I think that I mean you're not requiring it - it would likely have the same kind of condition that your other facility has at Paradise Community Village which is that's an emergency access only we have these kind of experiences before, so we have specific wording in the use permits to denote them as emergency accessories - So for - there it is right she's sorry for the town of paradise we condition the use of session so I didn't introduce everyone I assumed everyone knew who they were so Tony is the head of building, Nick is a planner, and Susan is the head of planning for the town of Paradise. - Um the fire it brought out the best of a lot of people but it also brought out both worse than a lot of people that is all for me and I'm heading down the road I don't give a flying yeah you know but about anybody else, you know we saw that with our next door neighbor who was supposed to save the other neighbor's dogs. Um so how can you be sure that these people that are on site that are supposed to use the key actually going to use key? Or are people just going to be slamming their trucks through that gate to get out? - It's spring locked. - I have, I mean I would be shocked if any of our staff did that I mean I know the woman who was at Paradise Community Village she was the last person out making sure and uh and but it is I mean I think that there was I mean I just rewrote my parents personal statement and you know they lived in a mobile home park and had to get off on Pence and then my mom got sick and had to pull over and people let her back in and you know it's scary are people gonna let you back in are you going to be able to get off those arterial roads? Um but it is a different town than it was in 2018. There are fewer people, there are wider roads, there are fewer trees, but there's still fewer people that were there before and if you were treated and so we are doing as absolutely everything we can to protect and prevent anything like that happening again um but situationally so many things have changed that the likelihood of that event happening in the same way is very low and the town is continuing to do additional mitigation measures with the undergrounding of the wires, and the widening of the roads, and the connecting with the dead end streets, and the kind of open space, and one of the things also I mean you were talking I think in one of the letters they talked about how you know the grasses weren't maintained and the trees weren't maintained. We will maintain them I mean we we have people and assets that we want to protect so there it will be maintained, it will be a lot of defensible space that will protect your homes as well. - And it will be designed right in the first place not trying to fix it after  the facts. - Yeah I just knowing human nature well I get it yeah I can see a potential faster because you know truthfully we may think that we know somebody but until they're in a situation sure you really honestly don't know how that how they're going to react when they're stressed. - Well and that is the beauty of having multiple people yeah I mean so it's not just one. - But you're gonna the you're still going to run into well we're going to put in the 20 some odd Sirens so anybody that lived here during the fire that's still here when the siren goes off they're going to get in their car and they're going to go and you're going to have gridlock and we have gridlocked in and even though it's not going to be the same kind of fire. We're not gonna have the same conditions you're putting 300 people in a small little area with one row, one two lane road onto another two-lane road period. - We're putting 300 people where there were 600 people. - There were not really 600 people! - I'm not even including the residential I mean yes - There were not 600 people on Cypress lane! 136 people in beds didn't drive! - Well but they had to get out although it was closed - But they didn't drive! (crowd mumbling) They already exist just that's part of your traffic jam that's part of the deal but  - it's not gonna be the same - you're talking about that if that this 140 units is um is okay because these other two properties you know and that property so you're talking about three different facilities that had that comparable but what if Apple Tree comes back or somebody else develops apple tree area to be high density and that old mobile park is also redeveloped to high density now you've got tripled the density - So pulling in Apple Tree and the others is primarily me, the the uses just on that property meets the standards - But that's what I'm saying is that your your comparing it to what was there before by comparing three properties two of which would have not been redeveloped - And they're not - The potential is that they could be. - They're not okay okay so there's a few ways of breaking that down right? They haven't come back, the owners have not indicated that they're planning on coming back, there's likely that at some point something will be back, but that is years down the road and the town will be continuing to develop the the fire safety and protections and so as the growth continues in that area and throughout the town, it will be a it will have that capacity so what we're proposing now there is capacity to get out and I know that there is fear, I get it I mean I I get it, but it is fewer people that were there that were than were there before, the town has changed and you meet people too, I mean like it has to happen. - Another question about density in a previous presentation you had mentioned that part of the zoning that that you're actually building at a lower density than is allowed, but then that triggers the question of we know that part of the reason that you're building lower density is because you're forced to be on septic but when if and when the sewer is ever connected what guarantees do we have that this wouldn't then be further developed to increase density? - It is not on the planed sewer route I mean it ends at Flagstaff so that likelihood, I mean I don't think there's money to extend it, I mean we would love to be on sewer for all the reasons that people were concerned about the septic um but it doesn't seem likely. Even if you're not though it's still as a as a neighboring land owner I do have concerns about the potential for further development once you say oh well we've got this plan and then we go then let's say in five ten years you go oh we didn't build the capacity so let's develop further what guarantees are there that that wouldn't happen? I mean that is a possibility but - well I don't think anybody surrounding that property wants it, - but I think that it is not likely I mean everything you guys have pointed out about the creeks, and the septic, and the fact that the sewer isn't going up so the likelihood is low, I'm not gonna say that it isn't a possibility because there is more land that isn't being used but you know depends on funding there's not going to be any more CBDGDR and it's hard to come up with matching funding so there's lots of challenges that make it very low. - And to put you  at ease this is the project that's presented right? Right here, they can't just up on a whim and decide to change the project right you have to go through this whole process we can go in front of the Planning Commission to change the project. - The Planning Commission hasn't approved this project - they have not - so that's where everybody show up if you have some concerns, and my concern is with there are no improvements on the books in the town according to the town engineer, there's no money, there's no funding to make any of these improvements that your studies alluded to on Clark Road, there's not going to be a center turn lane other than one that's already there you guys are not being asked to make any kind of improvements out there other than some drain addition, at least at this point from what we've been shown so that's one of the concerns is you know you're just the mere traffic if if just 100 or 200 people, 200 cars are coming in and out of you know and the seniors don't work so they don't drive it but it is more than one or two trips like you talked about with the California Vocations, it's people going to the store, people going to school, going pick up kids, bringing their kids back home, it's multiple trips dumping onto that road you know I didn't see a whole lot of numbers on traffic State other than saying the town's Master Traffic Transportation plan has improvements, you know, planned for Clark Road and they're not. -The traffic plan and so you're looking at town wide improvements. You're getting new roads you're getting the underground power, all the utilities underground. So town wide the evacuation routes - Not at that point! Not on that road! - I have newspaper articles from the 1990s talking about safe access to Escape Routes and what the town was planning on doing because they had a number of fires in the 90s one of which was called The Camp Fire, um I don't see that it's changed a whole lot we haven't lived up here that long but even the improvements that they made in the early teens obviously didn't work. And so we're just kind of setting ourselves up through the exact same thing, trees are going to regrow housing is going to develop, we're going to end up with the same traffic jams that we had with the Camp Fire. - Sp when did you move up? - 2011, so like all the Skyway downtown stuff was done at that point. -Ma'am did you have a question? -Yeah, I have stuff to say. Chris? - Oh we're kind of I mean if you have like a lot to say I'm not quite yet but I if it's related to what I'm doing if you kind of want to talk generally - No I'm I drove down here because of this - yeah but I mean if if we're taking questions specifically about the topic we're on on the slide right if you want to speak what I'm talking about septic, traffic, lighting? - Yeah, that's what I want to talk about. - okay Thank you, hi, um grew up here worked at Cypress Acres as a teenager. The ballpark is right across the street, there's a blind corner there,  it's um I've witnessed many accidents happening there, my mom had lived at Cypress Acres during the fire, it took them three hours to get to sleep and they all just got to ride in cars together it was a family after family after family with a car so let me back up little. Thank you so much for this housing it sounds awesome, it sounds beautiful, I think it should have another way out if you got one if there's an opportunity to do that please do that just make us feel better, make us feel safe, make us safe not even feel it like it's important for us to be safe. And whatever we do especially when there will be so many more cars involved with them we've got to get out of here because we need to get out of here and thank you so much that sounds beautiful, sounds what we need, but getting out is important thank you. - I mean I completely agree - um sorry for real quick so even if there's other places that need or want to open so maybe the Town of Paradise needs to like okay after this many people in this certain area you have to open that if somebody comes in or it just needs to be dealt with. It needs to be dealt with. - So we will have be able to go up both sides of Cyprus and I guess the the question is do we look at addicts too but it's still going on to Clark Road um it's the the question but um so traffic, I know I'm not going to be able to convince you, but the the actual studies and numbers and counts do say that it is fine. And the blind curve has been fixed um so that that blind, blind curve has been fixed um which is good because we wouldn't want people pulling out and in with that blank curve still there. Lighting I know there was a question about lighting will Dark Skies uh so basically the lights Point down more directly at uh walkways and parking so it doesn't have light pollution and it won't shine on the neighbor's houses that is and I think that for those of you who live near the Feather River lighting was a concern and they they were able to do it in a way that wasn't a nuisance. - Can you point out where the parking is on the schematic of the um single family housing? - So parking is all around it, so parking is behind and then the lights would go - on the upper right hand one - and then this one it's - where's all the parking spots? Grey. Grey. and then here, and then here, and then here and then there's parking there. - So how many units is that in the upper corner? - Is Cypress lane a public road or a private road? - Private. - What do you do for snow? - We deal with it. - Snow? It used to snow every year here when I was a kid, it stopped. Um yeah so that's where the parking is. - So how many units in the upper corner? - I don't know exactly. - What do you mean you don't know? - Because because it's different size buildings. - It's about 40 units in that area, about 40. - So about 100 cars? - About, not quite. - I have one more thing to say about the septic part. The leech field you have mapped out is where your walking trailers were we're all concerned about that because it's a swamp nobody's gonna be walking through there yeah - definitely not - that might be something you guys might  want to consider too - where are the walking trails again? - thank you - right below the top right there - - I didn't do all the messages so I know you were taking pictures on our website chiphousing.org we have the full site plan so it has a bottom part of it as well and it has more, all of the elevations of the building so you can see all of those pictures um and then in the plan, the actual plan it has um detailed maps that show more of the kind of elements you know, all the lines and kind of where things are at um all right Landscaping: so yeah this is the old one, we have we did submit a draft Landscaping plan um I think I have one No, no I don't. So because if they put it at the end of a different one um so we have a draft Landscaping plan, so trees you know we'll be there to screen, we'll have bushes um but obviously will WoWee considerations are the  most important, so making sure that you know trees don't drop embers on the buildings, and you know fences don't break fuses to the buildings and all of those things. Noise, um there will be people normal neighborhood noise, but we did put the playgrounds in the middle of the buildings to kind of mitigate that. And then public transportation we were talking about that for those of you who were a little bit early so we're hoping to work with B Line to basically improve the number of stops and where the stops are, um to make it as safe and convenient as possible. The woman we would talk to is on maternity leave um but we'll work with the town to get an introduction to the right person at B-Line for that. Property Management, so Wendy face of our property management we do pride ourselves on owning and maintaining well-managed properties we always work with the local jurisdictions writ large to make sure that our communities are well integrated into the town or the city where we live. We work with neighbors to ensure harmonious relationships, so I don't know if there are kids that are you know across the property line playing and being rowdy you call the manager and you say hey your kids are not doing what you're supposed to do and they go out there and tell them "hey can't do that" um which is one of the nice things about having a managed property because you have someone you can talk to um and go to. Um we have house rules so around quiet hours, guests visitors, things that they are not allowed to do, are and are not allowed to do, and they're obligated to abide by the house rules it's part of their lease. Um and then at Cypress we will have two full-time live-in Resident Managers, there will be a full-time Property Management Assistant, uh two Maintenance Technicians full-time, and then one full-time Resident Services Coordinator. So there will be a lot of staff on site at Cyprus, and then at night obviously the Resident Managers live there. - Um another question about the kids - yes - You don't have any plans for fencing the property? Because we're  right we have about 300 feet the adjoining property there we need a fence there - We do not have plans on fencing the whole 24 Acres, there may be considerations around you know particular areas um you know if it's very sensitive. - I mean we'll call the police but they're not going to come out for kids walking on our property. - Call the manager. - You would call the manager. - One of the first things that we notice is that our country is Corner each other um pretty much at that spot and then up my driveway is going to be the shortcut between this facility this um these residents and the nearest park and the nearest schools both of them. - Yeah - The shortcut is going to be right here and so a fencing is a concern. - So potentially I mean there are definitely conversations that can be had about fencing off the shortcut, right? So that it's not a point of access. So the the conversation that we had is are there strategic places that it makes sense to have fencing? Um and you know I think that that's something that's worth having a conversation about. We can't I mean there's it's 24 Acres - But you could fence up around your development - But I mean there's there's definitely I mean there's also assumptions, right? I mean there are sometimes kids, but they're not, I mean we don't have issues with nuisance kids. I get the shortcut to the schools in the park and things like that and cutting off access. - I'm just talking about noise. - Well fencing won't block noise because we can't - Susan can the Planning Commission put conditions on their use permit on this thing? To like the size of the trees they got to put in? Or any of that kind of stuff? Or fencing? And it'd be a condition, I mean like you know because like we never heard Cypress Acres or anything because there were trees you know it was a natural barrier, but they're gone this is a vacant big space so now you're going to put all this stuff in there some of your car is starting up in the morning I'm gonna you know with no fencing or if they put in minimum standard here I'll put a five gallon bucket with a redwood tree I bought a Costco, you know can we, can that be a condition that they can put on it? - The commission could be petitioned for any kind of special condition at the hearing absolutely. - You know where they have to put in like a certain size tree - -They'll take you into consideration any public comment that comes in the meeting - But no changes happen unless you petition - If you want them to add special conditions that really go above and beyond what the code standards are ,right, so special landscaping that's maybe um more heavily landscaped in certain areas for certain reasons then you as the neighbors would you know explain your concerns to the commission ask for those conditions to be worded that way and we've had that happen before another project. - And fencing is not a requirement for development? - It's not a requirement for anyone. - okay There are no fences planned but it is but it is something that we are absolutely open to considering strategic fencing um you know in certain places. - So are you going to add that to your plan uh I mean I think that I mean I think what we need to do is have some follow-up I'll share my business cards and we can kind of have more direct follow-up about it um and yeah because it's I mean we aren't looking at all of it and it is a big field that's mushy in the winter when it's wet so you know there's there's also the realities that sometimes it's not going to be anyone there and unfortunately kids are also inside a lot these days it's not like it used to be I mean when I was a kid I would have been wandering in your backyard but not So Much Anymore okay I grew up on the canyon so we  were there everywhere every day um uh okay amenities we talked about some of these I don't we don't have walking trails listed as an official amenity so I have to kind of double check that map but we'll put it in the little dog park for the dogs so that they're not wandering where they can go and they'll be community garden and all of those things and it is a good location I mean it's close to Save Mart it's pretty close to the schools uh it's an implication hospitals [Laughter] and that is corrected in the corrected version um so resident services so all of our properties have resident services programming it is an organizational value for us but it's also important it builds Community it creates a sense of commitment to each other and the neighbors so we have programming for parents we have probably have Financial education we have parenting classes we have nutrition classes for the kids we have senior programming Bingo arts and crafts um it really varies um we did not fill the shuttle into this um there it is possible sometimes to do a shuttle we did not build a shuttle into the budget I mean it's a little bit tight because you have to have that but I think I don't know  I mean We can brainstorm it's not uh yeah maybe some do actually because I was having coffee into James with housing tools the funding sources that have more green emphasis you can build your own bus and systems yeah but it does require a lot more  density we don't I mean we know it would require us to like put a lot more housing on a lot less land which doesn't fit the character of the neighborhood in order to get the money for the shuttles through those funding sources uh so but it is just it is hard so then we do customize the resident services so we have meetings with the tenants to see what they are most interested in we have Community Partners that are known to us that we bring into a lot of our different properties um so you know it's a lot of the same programming does happen but we also customize it Paradise Community Village was part of gold nugget Days parade um and that was kind of a resident services activity you know creating the posters and planning and having fun doing that um and then obviously uh fire safe Council that's uh Paradise specific so key Partnerships we talked about who the partners are but I wanted to add a few more so Mercy Housing as we mentioned is one of the largest non-profit housing developers in California um they are mission aligned they are very experienced they have a strong funding and financing partners and most importantly they have access to Affordable Insurance because of the size of their portfolio they are able to ensure at a normal rate up here um cbc's and development Consultants uh it's a great deal maker put those together the land deal since Eric construction is out of Chico so it is a local contractor that we're looking to work with and they hire a lot of local subcontractors as well so we're always excited about that I'm also very experienced um and then the town of paradise would be a partner with CBDG Dr funding if this project goes forward and they would be responsible for compliance so the money comes from the federal government to the town of Paradise Welcome to the state and there's a town of paradise um and uh and so they are responsible for ensuring that it's used properly so there is regular ongoing monitoring that comes along with that funding source you feel that picture there if you're going to follow the ivhs standards none of that's real you can't have any bushes trees or anything then 10 feet of the house this is Murphy Commons I'm just saying you know if you want to give us a picture of what this thing is going to look like be honest about it because if you follow those standards to build this you can't have any trees within like 10 feet of a structure you can't have any planting of any kind within five feet of a structure we we have a landscape I forgot yeah I I corrected I made a few Corrections and then I attached the Landscaping plan to the end of that presentation so that if it came up I could show it that that's not the presentation that kind of um but the point of this picture is of course I can't show you what it's going to be because we haven't built it yet but this is one of our beautiful properties in Chico this is Murphy Commons and it's you know Courtyard family and it's lovely I mean this is old this was built in 1997 and it still looked and looks so um what's the address of that property it is across from Marsh Elementary Notre Dame and Chica 1290 Notre Dame is Murphy Commons and then a brand new product and if you've gone  down to Paradise community no so Paradise Community Village is here so it's behind the old bowling alley in the Best Western so if you go down to Village Way in the little bowling alley you can check out paradise Community Village it's townhouse and like little fourplexes so the styles are slightly different um but you know that's that is a new property so you'll see the property you go to Murphy Commons it's 16 years old now 16 years old and so you'll see a 16 year old property and then a brand new property right next to it is senior um so Jeff Murphy housing Stephen Dawes I don't know if he's on Zoom but uh he's working with Varsity for 20 years and is staying on um to help this project and then they have support staff they're big um Zen um who's also on Zoom um and then on our team we have Teresa who's our Director of Rental Housing Development she also overseas rental housing we have a project manager who you know does local things so when we needed to get a tree survey out you know Jefferson Sacramento Allison was able to jump on that and get out here and do that um Wendy is our director of property management and then um because this I'm way more involved in this project than I normally am in any of our developments just because it is my hometown and I care a lot um about I don't care about the town and I care about this project um so I think and then sincerity Construction questions that we haven't answered yet yes here's something you can't do anything about it I've talked to a couple real cities  for those of us it's got a negatively I don't think you know that because we we are integrated in neighborhoods in Chico and it has not negatively impacted any of their property values in Paradise Community Village did not impact hello the people who lived on Paloma or Dudley or anyone so it is a misunderstanding of affordable housing that it will automatically decrease your problems they couldn't quantify everything I think that you will see that it doesn't there's so many wants to buy a house in Paradise they're going to buy a house it's not right next to their first right next to it you can't deny that I mean it would be beautiful I mean honestly unless you put fences up for those that look at her okay it will be and I mean honestly it does not the name we're integrated in neighborhoods throughout and and it has it has no impact yes the hospital yes there is no hospital no there's a year wait I talked to two different of my friends that are on Medi-Cal there's a year wait to get a primary doctor in advance yeah so so anywhere near here so what's that going to do to the dogs that are availability up here so the new residents some May already have their doctors here because they're campfire survivors so they may already have their primary care physician either in Chico or Paradise or Coralville so that will likely be the vast majority of people but they'll have to do the same thing that you all are doing you know have long Waits at the clinic or go to uh Chico but increasing the population will increase the services I mean the I mean medical is absolutely one of those things where you have more people they're gonna build more services with that and so obviously we're not the only there has to be other building that's happening it's happening across town I mean the permits that are happening so we will be part of the solution where there's enough demand for them to increase capacity I mean they've said it I mean the defense Health has said you need more people for us to be here you can't trust me but but there are other clinics that will save dollar signs and opportunities and you know just for everybody I you know I live across the street I'm Fort Service Road 176 feet from the quarters when I got my letter I was angry and uh and so I started I answered the negative declaration where everything was specific questions some of which I brought up again tonight but as a result of that in partly because I don't get to vote on this I don't get to be in the room and just gets talked about it I can't come to the Planning Commission but what I've done for my own satisfaction is I posed a lot of questions to Shauna and everybody else remember the whole team at one point we met with all of our staff and uh they answered most of my questions there are some things we don't you know this idea of well I don't believe property values they may you know I'm 78 years old my house is rebuilt when I die I don't give a shoe the language but but so I've gotten it I've come to peace with this development's going to happen our Channel with unique people we need affordable housing we need I'm a senior we need a senior housing so what they've proven to me with and and the staff because there's some people out there thinking oh the town is just no the town is not doing that stuff you know we got all this money from the feds we're trying to find the right weapons what they've convinced Mia that's most of the concerns that all of us are having to bring it up they're willing to deal with there may be some like defenses around all the units I mean that it's all about money it's always perfect you know we got corporations that are buying homes up in this town and lots up in this town but they want to move sex offenders into it we got stuff going on in this town that we as a council that as a staff are trying to curb they're trying to put some breaks up what chip is doing in this project is not a bad thing I don't like it I look out my master bedroom window and I'm going to see that two-story building over there because there's no trees angle I never saw Cypress Hillary but I'm going to support this project because I think that they maybe everything they say is absolutely true but they mean what they say and they're going to do they're going to do a good job you know and you know it's going to happen if it isn't chip who are responsible and this it's going to be somebody else because it's happening over again it's cheap dirt and people are buying stuff up they're able to get insurance they're going to build some stuff and they're at least they're having this meeting they're listening to us so it hasn't answered all of my concerns I still think it's a bottleneck I don't understand why I don't understand why the talent could rule out a cul-de-sac to be built with as many people in it that's just me I sat on that fart Road it took me two and a half hours to get to Pearson Road that day I don't think there's going to be that same fire but so not in my life my key takeaway from Woody is that he's mostly supporting it and yeah and I don't get to vote on it so just went on a chance to even say anything so you know I think some of your concerns are real right on and some of the things that they can't answer we don't know what the real estate's going to do I mean just glad I'm home this is where I want to spend my days and I'll live with it you know they're going to put some trees in so I don't have to see it I'm I'm the guy that's going to call Tony a code enforcement at 11 o'clock at night when there's noise you know I'm going to be happy yes thank you regarding all of the room the literal force of broom that is on that property right now what are your plans um to eradicate all the invases that have taken over since that is yeah it's in a weird in between stage right now you know because we we aren't finalizing the purchase until we know that the project is moving forward it's not in complaints right now yeah because it's too close to our department yeah it needs to be clear so we'll we'll figure something out either with the owner to work us to to clear and then Jeff I don't know if you want to speak to Native species in invasive mitigation I mean we are so some of the technical stuff obviously I've uh needed help on um but on the conversations around kind of the creeks and the mitigation and things like that we want to retain the native species and get rid of the invasives and we have a biologist on that is working with our environmental company to actually identify that and part of those invests and part of that discussion was around the invasive species and eradicating it at some point in time if indeed we do purchase the problem um it would be lovely to see some Rehabilitation and just on that Comfort Inn all of the surrounding card cases of course the wildlife migrates but of course all the deer in the sports museum but there's also Hawks there's um there are coyotes there there's foxes there's skunks there's um quail and bear yeah but I mean  there's so much Wildlife that has lived rehearsal for you know years and even before the fire even this basically just like this is blackberries right now um and so you know the Culvert is there so either we don't touch it because it doesn't need to or we make it bigger so that there's more passage but we're really pleased with the open space I mean yes we had to work around it and it meant that we couldn't do single story senior but it is what makes it attractive and so if we're able to um you know allow the native species to thrive I think that will be great I'll just comparison yes it's actually just three spots where it  goes like this and chain links because that's the problem the community garden is yeah to her point though another one of the things it's great you guys have negotiated these 20 plus acres the town ordinances are if you have more than five acres you're only going to do a 30 foot perimeter around it to be compliant with fire safe rooms right well for and even though you haven't finalized a purchase but it would be a good thing for any developers coming up we always Property Owners as residents we get tickets and we get notices if we're out of compliance commercial properties that have been vacant since a fire you know just starting to to deal with them so whoever's going to develop this you shouldn't let it be out of compliance whether you pay for it or whether you go to the owner say look it you know because it would it would sure make your presence in our community sure you would look like more responsible people because it's not fair that we as residents get threatened with hundred dollar fines because we don't have our weeds cut down foreign but one of the things that I forgot to mention um on the fire safety egress mitigation is in the conversations with Mercy early on I said in our operating budget we have to have more money than you would normally have for landscaping and the yard maintenance because for that very reason because it is a lot of land and we need to maintain it I guess I didn't state it you want us to deal with it down but for any developer then come in and show good faith become a part of the community be good players make the land look good as As of where uh April 1st when uh prior Pass State Fair clearance so once this project became becomes real and CHIP decides to purchase the property and this is something that you know we've been out there periodically we've obviously looked at it I wanted to see what the Creeks were doing with the rain and all of that but I wasn't looking down the field and thinking about that I know fire mitigation I mean that's why we're we have hundreds and hundreds of feet around PCB we'll talk to the owners and we'll figure out what we can do about something sooner rather than later like you're like what you'll call them and we'll take care of it because we're not enforcing that right now because it's weird but I get it it needs to be done we give everybody a vegetable spaces a year and we do have prevention inspectors in forcing the festival space year round So currently we are enforcing as well as we are doing real estate it needs to be taken care of even though it's in limbo and we'll we'll work with them to figure out who's going to do it yeah well it has a good submitage give us a month but we'll figure it out [Music] just so you know I'm 100  opposed if it's gonna happen that's okay I hope you don't Mark don't hate us and it won't be good neighbors any other questions um so the will be 60 um investor money but it it does have a federal tie back the investor money so but it'll be 40 cdb gdr if it goes through a 60 low income housing tax credits which usually has a bank or a associated so what are the um rents going to be for the so at Paradise Community Village our range is 500 to a thousand a little less like four four two so it depends on the better size it depends on the income limit um but at Paradise Community Village that has a similar range of one two three bedrooms and 30 to 60 Ami our rents range from like 480-ish right what was that uh so it is it's not 30 of it I'm only only for section eight people who have section eight it's just they have to meet they  have to be under the income for whatever unit level they're going into and then the rent is um as if they were at the maximum right but it's not exact always 30 of everything cheaper than markets and that is why these people can of course all right um do we want to end those recordings