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If you guys were running Grock 4,
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that'd be so much fun.
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How do you judo flip open AAI because
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are marching steadfastly towards a
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billion Mao, then a billion DAO?
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It's a juggernaut. So, how do you use
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the better product
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in a moment to judo flip
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the less better product?
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Look, yeah, I mean, here's the thing,
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right? So, you do the Elon way. So you
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have you get a bunch of missionary like
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full-on missionary engineers that work
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twice as hard and you have a culture
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that is ultra fierce truth seeeking
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and you don't you don't get caught up in
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politics, bureaucracy, BS
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and you just you go for it and and I
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think you know that's where you know and
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then you go wow scientific breakthrough
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scientific method like you start winning
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on truth and that will start I believe
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that will start to give the product
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awesomeness
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of open AI a run for its money
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but like the product of open AAI the
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product department those guys are
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crushing
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they're really good they're not only
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ahead of the game but they feel like it
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just they're just leading in a lot of
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different ways but if you are better at
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truth you will eventually you'll
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eventually have an AI product manager.
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Yeah. And on a technical basis too,
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people forget how good Elon is at
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factories and physical real world
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things.
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Uh what he did standing up Colossus made
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like Jensen Juan was like how is this
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possible that you did this right? So
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pressing that his ability to build
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factories and he said many times like
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the factory is the product to Tesla.
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It's not the cars that come out of the
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factory or the batteries. It's the
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factory itself. So if he can keep
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solving the energy problem with solar on
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one side and batteries and standing up,
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you know, Colossus 2, 3, four, five,
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he's going to have a massive advantage
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there. on top of Travis, you know, the
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missionary
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individuals, which by the way was what
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he backed before Sam Alman corrupted the
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original missionary basis of Open AI and
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made it closed AI and a you know, this
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is nothing derogatory towards him, but
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he did hoodwink and stabbed Elon in the
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back. It's not nothing personal. I mean,
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he just screwed him over. And
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would you say he bamboozled him?
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He bamboozled him, screwed him,
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hoodwinkedked him. you know, pick your
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term here,
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but uh he did it he didn't dirty. The
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original mission was to be missionary
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and open source all this content. That's
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the other piece I think is a wild card.
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And I'll and then I'll sit in Keith's
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position, but
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open sourcing some of this could have
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profound ramifications. I think open
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sourcing the self-driving data could
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have a really profound impact.
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Elon wanted to do something really
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disruptive like he open sourced his
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patents for, you know, um charging. If
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he open source the data set and
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self-driving, does anybody have the
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ability to produce robo taxis at the
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scale he can do it? I don't think so.
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Travis's hypothesis is true. Then yeah,
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everybody will.
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Well, everybody will what? Sorry.
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Everybody will what? Shiman,
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if you have access to the money that
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buys the compute, everyone could solve
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that problem.
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Which piece I'm talking?
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He said he said if he if he published
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all the FSD data,
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could somebody build an autonomous
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vehicle?
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Well, yes, but could somebody produce a
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100 million robo taxis from a factory
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with batteries in them?
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Okay, that's a diff that's a different
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thing. I'm saying
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and not really because last time I was a
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guest on, you know, all in we talked
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about vertical integration.
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Uh products really require vertical
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integration. So ultimately you have a
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self-driving something that is
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customuilt for knowing it's going to be
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self-driving and it interacts
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differently. the cost structure is
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different, the controls are different,
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the seating is different, everything.
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You build a product taking advantage of
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where the staff you have the most
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competitive advantage, but then you
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leverage that and it reinforces it's
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still why like Apple despite missing the
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AI wave, still a pretty good company
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from any empirical standpoint. I mean,
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like the performance is absolutely
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miserable on the most important
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technology through the last 70 years,
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but the company's still alive and still
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worth trillions of dollars because it's
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vertically integrated. Open AAI for your
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point, they do have a good product team
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and they need to stay ahead on the
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product level because they can't compete
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on the factory level. The way to stay
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ahead on the product level is shipping a
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device. They got to ship the device.
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It's got to be good. It's got to be
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right. It's got to be the right form
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factor. It's got to do things for humans
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that are unexpected. But then if they do
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that, they're like Apple plus AI.
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Chimath, what's the paper you were
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talking about before? What was the name
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of it again? The bitter lesson it could
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apply to autonomous driving is right now
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it's still like, hey, how do I drive
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like a human? We talked about that. But
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the leaprog moment here could be like,
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hey, drive a car, make sure it's
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efficient. Don't hit anybody and just
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simulate that a quadrillion times and
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it's all good, right? But right now,
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we're still trying to drive like humans
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because we don't have enough data and
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therefore can't do enough compute.
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That's the global lesson. By the way,
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Chimoth, you're totally right. The
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conceptual, you know, the blog post is
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right, but that's only true when you
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have enough data. And depending on the
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use case, the level of data you need may
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not be possible for years, decades, and
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you may need to hack your way there
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through human interactions.
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physical world AI is lacking in data and
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so you just try to approximate humans.